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This blog was created to assist you in your "free choice" book discussions, but it can develop into a forum to answer questions, exchange ideas, and extend classroom discussions.
Even though I'm not very far into this book, I can already see a theme emerging, centered around one of the main characters- Cosima, or Codi, for short. Like in "The Poisonwood Bible," Kingsolver alternates throughout the book between different points of view- from Cosima to Homero, who is her father. Homero's narrations seem to be mostly recollections of the past about his daughters- Codi and Hallie. Cosima's narrations center on her life as she is returning to her hometown in Grace, Arizona because the town fears that her father, Homero, a.k.a. Doc Homer, is going crazy. Nearly every paragraph in the fist 50 or so pages that I have read so far contains a simile or metaphor. Through this, Kingsolver is painting a picture of life for Codi and the internal struggle of returning to her hometown, where she never really fit in. But then again, as she reveals, she hasn't really been able to fit in anywhere she goes. She is essentially searching for herself- for her place in the world and somewhere that she can call home.
I definitely agree with the 'searching' theme. I am also very curious about the names chosen. I know that Grace is surrounded by Native American and hints of Spanish culture, however these names sound Greek to me. So here is what I found.
Cosima means order and universe in Greek.
And as we are told in the beginning of the novel, the father, Homero, is obviously losing his mind. But I am more curious about his strict interest in the sciences that he inflicted on the girls. From what I can gather, this is an ironic name for such a fact based man. "In Greek his name is 'Homeros', which is Greek for "hostage". There is a theory that his name was back-extracted from the name of a society of poets called the Homeridae, which literally means "sons of hostages", i.e., descendants of prisoners of war. As these men were not sent to war because their loyalty on the battlefield was suspect, they would not get killed in battles. Thus they were entrusted with remembering the area's stock of epic poetry, to remember past events, in the times before literacy came to the area.." "Most Classicists would agree that, whether there was ever such a composer as "Homer" or not, the Homeric poems are the product of an oral tradition, a generations-old technique that was the collective inheritance of many singer-poets, aoidoi." The hints of tradition and customs are alluded to throughout the start of the book, like the unique pronunciations of the Quince trees. It is suitable that Homero's name would provide tradition and model the heritage of the town that Codi grew up with.
And like Codi’s, Halimeda is Greek, meaning the sea.
And finally, a tribute to her spirit and large family, Codi’s friend Emelina’s name means hard working.
I’m very interested in these Greek allusions that Kingsolver brings in and mixes with the heritage of Grace.
There is definitely a “searching” theme. Cosima does not fit in Grace and she really never has, even as a child. Throughout the book, she is attempting to recollect her childhood memories of her and Hallie “saving” their little town and little coyote pups. “…Saving Grace, Amazing Grace. Every one left a bitter taste in the mouth.” Cosima attempted to be a doctor, like her father, to save Grace, but she did not get her license. “If I ever wrote down on paper my full employment history, I assure you it would look like the resume of a schizophrenic.” This goes to show how many careers she has tried, but none of them seemed to last. She worked in a research lab, convenience mart clerking, and now a high school Biology teacher.
Many childhood friends saw Hallie and Cosima as two very similar girls because they did nearly everything together. But as Cosima looks back on her childhood, they were (and still are) very different, yet they are still best friends (and sisters). Hallie has a set goal in life and seems to fit in where ever she goes (in Guatemala), where as Cosima is still trying to fit in her hometown.
I don't really think that I agree with the idea that Codi wanted to become a doctor "to save Grace," I think it was really more about finding a way to save herself. If she had been able to become a doctor and finished her year to residency- she would have found common ground with her father, something that she has been lacking her entire life. She actually thinks it is absurd that some people in the town were speculating that she had returned to Grace to take over her father's position as the town doctor, as she had really come to Grace to attempt to care for her dying father and, more importantly, to find herself.
I finished the book this weekend and was glad to see that Codi finally found her place in the world. Despite years of feeling like she didn't belong in Grace because of her father's attempts to hide the past, she found truth and a family in Emelina and her kids, her numerous town "mothers," and Loyd.
I think that there are quite a few symbols presented throughout this book. One of the most apparent ones being the importance of the peacocks to life in Grace. They were brought over on the ship with the Gracela sisters and have since inhabited the town and the orchards. They are a symbol of the past, but also very important to Grace's future. The Stitch and Bitch club uses them to save the town from the pollution of the mine by creating artistic pinatas modeled after them. They show the importance of remembering and using the past to ensure a future.
Also, I think that there is strong parallelism between the burial of Codi's stillborn baby in her mother's sweater and the burial of Hallie's possessions in their childhood afghan. The afghan became somewhat like a mother to the girls when they were younger- it comforted them when they were afraid and brought them together as a family. By burying Hallie's possessions in it, Codi is essentially burying her mother, her childhood, her baby, and her sister all at once. She finds a way to get past the horrors of death and find what she has been longing for- her place in Grace and the world.
Another theme that I think Kingsolver points out throughout "Animal Dreams" is the difference between the Native American treatment and use of the land and the industrial, devastating use of the land by the Black Hill Mining Company. Codi experiences the differences firsthand as she visits Pueblo villages with Loyd and as she studies the river and its pollution with sulfuric acid. As she sees Pueblo architecture, she notices how it fits in with the land rather than destroys it, "The walls were shaped to fit the curved hole in the cliff, and the building blocks were cut from the same red rock that served as their foundation. I thought...about Pueblo architecture, whose object was to build a structure that the earth could embrace." (Page 211). This image is extremely contrasting with the actions of "white" civilization, the Black Hill Mining Company. As Codi studies the company's use of the land she explains, "Black Hill Mining Company has been running sulfuric acid... people used it to kill rats and pond algae...There's a ton of it in the river...so the Black Mountain is building a dam to run the river out of Tortoise Canyon." Did anyone else think about this comparison between white and Native American use of the land?
Why do you think Doc Homer kept it a secret from Hallie and Codi that they were actually related to people in Grace, that they weren't misfit outsiders?
I've been thinking about this one and I can't really figure out why exactly he kept their ancestry a secret. To me, it seems like he wanted to fit in with the town and the people, he was the town doctor and he saw how not fitting in hurt his daughters. So I'm thinking that he kept it a secret because it was too hurtful to admit that he was tied to the place. It may have brought up unwanted memories of his wife? I don't know, that just seemed strange to me. When Codi finally does find out that she is descended from the Gracela sisters and does have a place in the town, she is able to finally have a sense of self and settle into her life.
Re Kimberly ideas: The contrasting opinions and treatment of land between the native americans and white becomes an obvious theme due to Loyds, and Grace's dependency on the land.
in reaction to her classes science fieldtrip, Codi discovers that Graces "water is dead," as a result of the ignorance and pollution of the EPA. The orachards that serve as Grace's lifeline are threatened because of the lack of responsibility and control that governemnt and state programs have over treatment centers. As a result, the town of grace and its agriculture are dieing. In contrast, the ancient buildings and structures like those that Codi witnesses while in whiteriver have survived for eight hundred years. And like the protzoans that Codi was trying to show her students that sustain the river, Kinishba bricks "looked just like cells under a microscope." Kingsolver argues that the simplisitc and natural materials used to sustain life are stronger and safer than any pollutants or chemicals that man depends on today.
Do you agree with Kingsolver's interpretaion of Animal Dreams? Its seems mystifying and almost threatening that "we can't think of anything to dream about except our ordinary lives." Im not sure if i want to believe this because it feels so limiting, but apon reflection, my dreams do seem to contain relative aspects of my life. For example, a familiar person, place, or threat. I guess I would qualify this statment.
Initially I compared Homero to Nathan Price in The Posionwood Bible. Hallie and Codi seem fearful of intense passion for his beliefs; Homero remains loyal to medicine, while Nathan to religion. And similarly to the Price daughters, Hallie and Codi created false names and sayings to mock thier father. Yet in other ways, i am beginning to see similarities between Orleanna and Homero. By writing chapters from Homero's POV, Kingsolver introduces us to either a new stage in Codi's o a new theme and serves as a reflection on his family and Grace. Just as Orleanna's voice was used to express universal and larger picture themes.
Some questions have been developing for me and i just wanted to hear from others. (i still have about 50 pages left tonight, so they might be answered later:)). Why doesnt Codi tell Hallie about her baby? I cant decide if Codi keeps it a secret out of shame and doesnt want the sister she idelizes to look down upon her. It seems to me that she doesnt really begin to compare herself to Hallie and how other people see her until they are adults and connect through writing.
Why not tell Loyd about her baby as well? Her experience as a teenager has obviously left an impact on her self conscious and attitude but as her a Loyd grow closer and seek information about each other, it just seems like something that should be shared...
When dealing with Codi's pregnancy, Homero repeats "there are rules about this." (pg 139-141)Do you think this is his reasoning not to become involved with her struggle. Like some rule relationship between father and daughter. Or on more medical terms, must a patient ask for help before being advised and prescriped treatment?
When I read the book, I did not recognize the relationship, but now that it was brought up and I look back on it, that comparison makes a lot of sense. I think I agree that Kingsolver is comparing the Native American use of the land and the current abuse of the land. When the Native Americans built their villages, they worked with the land, whereas current society is working against it. This idea was referenced many times throughout the book especially when Codi went with Loyd to his hometown. Codi describes, “The village was built on a mesa and blended perfectly with the landscape, constructed of the same stones as the outcroppings that topped all the other, empty mesas.” “…Blended perfectly with the landscape” supports the idea of working with the land, as mentioned earlier.
I think that Codi did not tell Hallie about her pregnancy because she was ashamed. Codi and Hallie had a very close relationship up to the day that Hallie died and I think that Codi also felt that telling Hallie would rupture that relationship. I also think that Codi did not mention it to Loyd, who was the father of the baby, similarly to why she didn’t tell Hallie. I also think she also did not want to hurt Loyd’s life because she knew that he would be sad that it was his child who did not survive.
I am not exactly sure how to answer the last question, but I think that Homero was more of a medical doctor to his girls than a father, to an extent. I think that he wanted the best for his girls. For example, he made them wear orthopedic shoes to prevent their arches from caving in. He also saw all of the signs of Codi’s pregnancy and I think that he was trying to give her space by intervening only when she asked, similar to a patient and doctor relationship.
I really enjoyed this book and the way that Kingsolver broke up the book into different narrations. I agree that this book has a similar set up as The Poisonwood Bible. There are different perspectives with Homero being similar to Orleanna's chapters showing the "big picture."
I have been wondering if Loyd's dog, Jack, has some purpose or significance in the book. The way Loyd describes him seems somewhat significant and I can't quite figure it out.
I also wanted to add how Kingsolver ties in the translations of the Greek names, as Lucy pointed out earlier. “I’d brought some order to his cosmos finally.” Lucy pointed out that Cosima means order and universe and Kingsolver brings in both of these aspects. At the end of the book, Kingsolver writes this when Codi and Emelina’s boys are decorating Doc Homer’s grave on the Day of the Souls. I just thought it was interesting.
A theme emerging...
ReplyDeleteEven though I'm not very far into this book, I can already see a theme emerging, centered around one of the main characters- Cosima, or Codi, for short. Like in "The Poisonwood Bible," Kingsolver alternates throughout the book between different points of view- from Cosima to Homero, who is her father. Homero's narrations seem to be mostly recollections of the past about his daughters- Codi and Hallie. Cosima's narrations center on her life as she is returning to her hometown in Grace, Arizona because the town fears that her father, Homero, a.k.a. Doc Homer, is going crazy. Nearly every paragraph in the fist 50 or so pages that I have read so far contains a simile or metaphor. Through this, Kingsolver is painting a picture of life for Codi and the internal struggle of returning to her hometown, where she never really fit in. But then again, as she reveals, she hasn't really been able to fit in anywhere she goes. She is essentially searching for herself- for her place in the world and somewhere that she can call home.
Re: Kimberly
ReplyDeleteA theme emerging...
I definitely agree with the 'searching' theme. I am also very curious about the names chosen. I know that Grace is surrounded by Native American and hints of Spanish culture, however these names sound Greek to me. So here is what I found.
Cosima means order and universe in Greek.
And as we are told in the beginning of the novel, the father, Homero, is obviously losing his mind. But I am more curious about his strict interest in the sciences that he inflicted on the girls. From what I can gather, this is an ironic name for such a fact based man. "In Greek his name is 'Homeros', which is Greek for "hostage". There is a theory that his name was back-extracted from the name of a society of poets called the Homeridae, which literally means "sons of hostages", i.e., descendants of prisoners of war. As these men were not sent to war because their loyalty on the battlefield was suspect, they would not get killed in battles. Thus they were entrusted with remembering the area's stock of epic poetry, to remember past events, in the times before literacy came to the area.."
"Most Classicists would agree that, whether there was ever such a composer as "Homer" or not, the Homeric poems are the product of an oral tradition, a generations-old technique that was the collective inheritance of many singer-poets, aoidoi." The hints of tradition and customs are alluded to throughout the start of the book, like the unique pronunciations of the Quince trees. It is suitable that Homero's name would provide tradition and model the heritage of the town that Codi grew up with.
And like Codi’s, Halimeda is Greek, meaning the sea.
And finally, a tribute to her spirit and large family, Codi’s friend Emelina’s name means hard working.
I’m very interested in these Greek allusions that Kingsolver brings in and mixes with the heritage of Grace.
Re: Kimberly
ReplyDeleteA theme emerging...
There is definitely a “searching” theme. Cosima does not fit in Grace and she really never has, even as a child. Throughout the book, she is attempting to recollect her childhood memories of her and Hallie “saving” their little town and little coyote pups. “…Saving Grace, Amazing Grace. Every one left a bitter taste in the mouth.” Cosima attempted to be a doctor, like her father, to save Grace, but she did not get her license. “If I ever wrote down on paper my full employment history, I assure you it would look like the resume of a schizophrenic.” This goes to show how many careers she has tried, but none of them seemed to last. She worked in a research lab, convenience mart clerking, and now a high school Biology teacher.
Many childhood friends saw Hallie and Cosima as two very similar girls because they did nearly everything together. But as Cosima looks back on her childhood, they were (and still are) very different, yet they are still best friends (and sisters). Hallie has a set goal in life and seems to fit in where ever she goes (in Guatemala), where as Cosima is still trying to fit in her hometown.
Re: Bryn
ReplyDeleteI don't really think that I agree with the idea that Codi wanted to become a doctor "to save Grace," I think it was really more about finding a way to save herself. If she had been able to become a doctor and finished her year to residency- she would have found common ground with her father, something that she has been lacking her entire life. She actually thinks it is absurd that some people in the town were speculating that she had returned to Grace to take over her father's position as the town doctor, as she had really come to Grace to attempt to care for her dying father and, more importantly, to find herself.
I finished the book this weekend and was glad to see that Codi finally found her place in the world. Despite years of feeling like she didn't belong in Grace because of her father's attempts to hide the past, she found truth and a family in Emelina and her kids, her numerous town "mothers," and Loyd.
Some other things I was thinking about...
ReplyDeleteI think that there are quite a few symbols presented throughout this book. One of the most apparent ones being the importance of the peacocks to life in Grace. They were brought over on the ship with the Gracela sisters and have since inhabited the town and the orchards. They are a symbol of the past, but also very important to Grace's future. The Stitch and Bitch club uses them to save the town from the pollution of the mine by creating artistic pinatas modeled after them. They show the importance of remembering and using the past to ensure a future.
Also, I think that there is strong parallelism between the burial of Codi's stillborn baby in her mother's sweater and the burial of Hallie's possessions in their childhood afghan. The afghan became somewhat like a mother to the girls when they were younger- it comforted them when they were afraid and brought them together as a family. By burying Hallie's possessions in it, Codi is essentially burying her mother, her childhood, her baby, and her sister all at once. She finds a way to get past the horrors of death and find what she has been longing for- her place in Grace and the world.
Some more thoughts I had...
ReplyDeleteAnother theme that I think Kingsolver points out throughout "Animal Dreams" is the difference between the Native American treatment and use of the land and the industrial, devastating use of the land by the Black Hill Mining Company. Codi experiences the differences firsthand as she visits Pueblo villages with Loyd and as she studies the river and its pollution with sulfuric acid. As she sees Pueblo architecture, she notices how it fits in with the land rather than destroys it, "The walls were shaped to fit the curved hole in the cliff, and the building blocks were cut from the same red rock that served as their foundation. I thought...about Pueblo architecture, whose object was to build a structure that the earth could embrace." (Page 211). This image is extremely contrasting with the actions of "white" civilization, the Black Hill Mining Company. As Codi studies the company's use of the land she explains, "Black Hill Mining Company has been running sulfuric acid... people used it to kill rats and pond algae...There's a ton of it in the river...so the Black Mountain is building a dam to run the river out of Tortoise Canyon."
Did anyone else think about this comparison between white and Native American use of the land?
One more thing...
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think Doc Homer kept it a secret from Hallie and Codi that they were actually related to people in Grace, that they weren't misfit outsiders?
I've been thinking about this one and I can't really figure out why exactly he kept their ancestry a secret. To me, it seems like he wanted to fit in with the town and the people, he was the town doctor and he saw how not fitting in hurt his daughters. So I'm thinking that he kept it a secret because it was too hurtful to admit that he was tied to the place. It may have brought up unwanted memories of his wife? I don't know, that just seemed strange to me. When Codi finally does find out that she is descended from the Gracela sisters and does have a place in the town, she is able to finally have a sense of self and settle into her life.
Re Kimberly ideas:
ReplyDeleteThe contrasting opinions and treatment of land between the native americans and white becomes an obvious theme due to Loyds, and Grace's dependency on the land.
in reaction to her classes science fieldtrip, Codi discovers that Graces "water is dead," as a result of the ignorance and pollution of the EPA. The orachards that serve as Grace's lifeline are threatened because of the lack of responsibility and control that governemnt and state programs have over treatment centers. As a result, the town of grace and its agriculture are dieing.
In contrast, the ancient buildings and structures like those that Codi witnesses while in whiteriver have survived for eight hundred years. And like the protzoans that Codi was trying to show her students that sustain the river, Kinishba bricks "looked just like cells under a microscope." Kingsolver argues that the simplisitc and natural materials used to sustain life are stronger and safer than any pollutants or chemicals that man depends on today.
Do you agree with Kingsolver's interpretaion of Animal Dreams? Its seems mystifying and almost threatening that "we can't think of anything to dream about except our ordinary lives."
ReplyDeleteIm not sure if i want to believe this because it feels so limiting, but apon reflection, my dreams do seem to contain relative aspects of my life. For example, a familiar person, place, or threat. I guess I would qualify this statment.
So i guess my sister created a google account.
ReplyDeleteCECELIA is actually me.
Initially I compared Homero to Nathan Price in The Posionwood Bible. Hallie and Codi seem fearful of intense passion for his beliefs; Homero remains loyal to medicine, while Nathan to religion. And similarly to the Price daughters, Hallie and Codi created false names and sayings to mock thier father.
ReplyDeleteYet in other ways, i am beginning to see similarities between Orleanna and Homero. By writing chapters from Homero's POV, Kingsolver introduces us to either a new stage in Codi's o a new theme and serves as a reflection on his family and Grace. Just as Orleanna's voice was used to express universal and larger picture themes.
Some questions have been developing for me and i just wanted to hear from others. (i still have about 50 pages left tonight, so they might be answered later:)).
ReplyDeleteWhy doesnt Codi tell Hallie about her baby? I cant decide if Codi keeps it a secret out of shame and doesnt want the sister she idelizes to look down upon her. It seems to me that she doesnt really begin to compare herself to Hallie and how other people see her until they are adults and connect through writing.
Why not tell Loyd about her baby as well? Her experience as a teenager has obviously left an impact on her self conscious and attitude but as her a Loyd grow closer and seek information about each other, it just seems like something that should be shared...
When dealing with Codi's pregnancy, Homero repeats "there are rules about this." (pg 139-141)Do you think this is his reasoning not to become involved with her struggle. Like some rule relationship between father and daughter. Or on more medical terms, must a patient ask for help before being advised and prescriped treatment?
Just some questions
Re: Kimberly
ReplyDeleteContrasted treatment of the land
When I read the book, I did not recognize the relationship, but now that it was brought up and I look back on it, that comparison makes a lot of sense. I think I agree that Kingsolver is comparing the Native American use of the land and the current abuse of the land. When the Native Americans built their villages, they worked with the land, whereas current society is working against it. This idea was referenced many times throughout the book especially when Codi went with Loyd to his hometown. Codi describes, “The village was built on a mesa and blended perfectly with the landscape, constructed of the same stones as the outcroppings that topped all the other, empty mesas.” “…Blended perfectly with the landscape” supports the idea of working with the land, as mentioned earlier.
Re: Lucy
ReplyDeleteI think that Codi did not tell Hallie about her pregnancy because she was ashamed. Codi and Hallie had a very close relationship up to the day that Hallie died and I think that Codi also felt that telling Hallie would rupture that relationship. I also think that Codi did not mention it to Loyd, who was the father of the baby, similarly to why she didn’t tell Hallie. I also think she also did not want to hurt Loyd’s life because she knew that he would be sad that it was his child who did not survive.
I am not exactly sure how to answer the last question, but I think that Homero was more of a medical doctor to his girls than a father, to an extent. I think that he wanted the best for his girls. For example, he made them wear orthopedic shoes to prevent their arches from caving in. He also saw all of the signs of Codi’s pregnancy and I think that he was trying to give her space by intervening only when she asked, similar to a patient and doctor relationship.
I really enjoyed this book and the way that Kingsolver broke up the book into different narrations. I agree that this book has a similar set up as The Poisonwood Bible. There are different perspectives with Homero being similar to Orleanna's chapters showing the "big picture."
ReplyDeleteI have been wondering if Loyd's dog, Jack, has some purpose or significance in the book. The way Loyd describes him seems somewhat significant and I can't quite figure it out.
I also wanted to add how Kingsolver ties in the translations of the Greek names, as Lucy pointed out earlier. “I’d brought some order to his cosmos finally.” Lucy pointed out that Cosima means order and universe and Kingsolver brings in both of these aspects. At the end of the book, Kingsolver writes this when Codi and Emelina’s boys are decorating Doc Homer’s grave on the Day of the Souls. I just thought it was interesting.
ReplyDelete